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Family Tree
David Kinna's Family Archive - Herrings
Alfred Isaac Herring was born in 1st May 1853 at 44 Walcot Square Lambeth. In 1874 Alfred married Lucy Kemp and by 1881 they had five children. He was now working as a coal merchant. His two sons followed him into the business and they expanded into removals. Alfred, the youngest, married Rosina Ryan in 1905 and my mother was born in May of that year. This photograph is of my mother taken about 1910. When visiting my grandparents as a child, I remember looking at the family Bible and the writing in the front. But when my grandmother died it was lost some how. This might have been a useful store of information.
Herring History
I knew both my maternal grandparents, but as far as I can remember I did not ever meet any of their immediate family. In conversations with my mother it seemed that she did not know much about them either. The only people that my mother talked about were her grandfather Herring, the Kemps and Victor Ellis. Alfred Isaac Herring and Lucy (nee Kemp) had 5 children, Jane, Lucy, Albert Richard, Lily and Alfred, my grandfather. In 1891 they were living at 60 6th Avenue, Alfred is shown as a coal merchant and was born in Lamberth. Lucy was born in Findon Sussex. Ten years later thay had moved to 2 Vine Villers Harrow Road and the daughters had moved out, Jane as a servant in the Frankham household at 28 Amwell Street Clerkenwell and Lucy as servant in the Cooke household at 95 Third Avenue.
By 1901 both girls were working as housemaid and betweenmaid respectivly for Diana Morton-Herbert at 20 Glocester Terrace Paddington. I have not been able to discover what happened to Jane after this time.

Lucy married Cecil H Ellis on 10th October 1905, and lived at 82 Chamberlyne Road but they moved to Southall before their first child, Victor, was born in 1907. The Ellis's had 6 children in all, 3 of each. The family relationship must have stayed quite close, as my mother had their daughter Gladys Lucy as a bridesmaid. After my mother married I think the relationship drifted apart, and from the photos that suvive of Ivy's wedding in 1937, there was no sign of the Ellises or Kemps .

Lucy Kemp's brother Edward married an American girl, Mary Jane, may be in India, since Edward was in the Royal Artillery stationed in India. They had their first two children in India three in Gosport and the last two boys in Willesden. My mother referred to these two as the "naughty boys Ronnie and Leslie", she also spoke of Gerty Kemp, who was another child. By 1911 the Kemps were living at 129 Purves Road, College Park. After Edward left the army he became an agent for Provident Insurance, like my mothers father.

The Ryan's have been dificault to trace for the usual reasons - the official records have errors or appear to be missing.

1881 Census 52 Gt. James Street
Thomas Ryan age 28 (1853) born Camden Town
May Ryan age 21 (1860) born Charring Cross

Baptism record: Mary Magdelene Church Paddington Street. 10-10-1889
Rosina Ryan b 5-3-1884 Paddington. Father: Thomas John Mother: Mary
Charles Walter b 1-8-1887 Marylebone. Father: Thomas John Mother: Mary

Albert Thomas Ryan b 20-6-1883 Father: Thomas John Ryan
Mother: May Ryan née Letch address:
16 Cuthbert Street Paddington

Rosina Ryan b 5-3-1885 Father: Thomas John Ryan
Mother: May Ryan née Letch
address: 16 Cuthbert Street Paddington

Charles Walter Ryan b 1-8-1887 Father Thomas John Ryan
Mother: Mary Ryan née Letch
address: 34 Nightingale Street Marylebone

Marriage Certificates At St.Martins Church on 28 April 1907
Albert Thomas Ryan age 24 a French Polisher married
Edith Rebecca Mantle age 21 a Lanudress.
His address is 40 Rainham Road and hers as 52 Purvis Road.
the witnesses were Rosina May Herring and Henry William Palmer.

At St.Johns Church on 22 February 1920
Thomas John Ryan age 58 a Decorator married
Florence Emily Pearce age 39 a Housemaid
His and her address is 40 Rainham Road.

What has happened to Charles W?, I can't find a death. In 1891 he would have been 4.
Both my mother and her mother had May as their middle name which gives weight to her grandmother being May rather than Mary.

1891 Census 18 Belmont Street
Thomas b 1833 [1853] Hempstead
Mary [May] b 1857 St James
Albert b 1883 Paddington
Ronna [Rosina] b 1885 Paddington

1901 Census 40 Rainham Road
Thomas J b 1852 Hempstead
Mary [May] b 1856
Alfred [Albert] b 1883 Paddington
Rose [Rosina] b 1885 Paddington

I could not find an Alfred Ryan or Rose Ryan born in Paddington during the relevant period.

1911 Census 40 Rainham Road
Thomas J age 60, b 1851 Hempstead, married for 23 years
Mary A (May) age 55, b 1856 Gt James
The Census also indicates 4 living children

1905 Marriage St Peter's Church Paddington
Alfred Herring age 21 and Rosina May Ryan age 19 both addresses 93 Marylands Road
Rosina's father, Thomas Ryan was shown as a French Polisher. Alfred's father was shown as a Furniture Remover.
Witnesses Lucy Herring and Cecil H Ellis.

There is an entry for the marriage of Albert Thomas to Nora Cook, Hendon 3a 377 Jun 1907. children Albert Thomas b Hendon Dec 1907 and Nora Mary M b Hendon Sept 1909.

Albert Herring married Annie Bladon, her full name was Wilhelmina Jane Agnes Bladon, and they had one daughter Agness Henrietta (Hetty) Bell. They initially lived at 1 All Saints Road Notting Hill. In 1933 Agness married Cyril Bradford and in 1936 they had a daughter Lorna.

I think Lily Herring died age 6 in late 1887.

Alfred Isaac and his sons were removers and coal merchants, and I can remember seeing an advert for Herring Coal Merchant, painted on the side of a building probably, Kensal Green Station where the coal yard was. I can remember the advert for 'Herring Coal' painted on the side of the building. Alfred Isaac died suddenly in June 1909 at the age of 56. I think it might have been at this time that my grandfather became an insurance salesman. In February 1905 he married Rosina Ryan, and my mother was born in May of that year. Their next child was nine years later in March 1914, a girl Ivy Winifred. A son was born in October 1915, Alfred John. Alfred John was known as Johnny, and sadly he died age 16 months from Meningitis, at the Paddington Green Children's Hospital. Ivy's daughter Beryl, told me a story that he had died after falling out of his high chair, and that he was born before Ivy, she went on to say that if she [Ivy] misbehaved Rosina would taunt her by saying "if Johnny had not died we would not have had you". Ivy would probably not have remembered Alfred John any way but it is a strange story to make up.

During the first war Alfred served in the navy between April 1917 to September 1919, he had previously been in the RNVR. Whilst he was away Rosina took over his Insurance round. At the time of their marriage they were living 93 Maylands Road, they subsequently moved seven times, their final move was in 1939 to 41 Liddle Gardens.

Herring addresses during their marriage.

1913 - 1918
Mortimer Street
93 Marylands Road
149 Harley Street [Road]
12 Leighton Gardens
107 Bathurst Gardens
7 Ashburnham Road
116 Bathurst Gardens
6A Odessa Road
41 Liddle Gardens
Information source
from GPO directory
From marriage certificate
From marriage certificate

Doris went to school at Chamberlyne Road School, and then to The Maria Gray High School, doing well. Doris's first job was with Mrs Hunt's Agency in Marylebone High Street, a company providing staff for the rich and famous. Then round about 1926 she went for an interview with The Albion Motor Co. during the interview she was asked if she could operate a Switch Board, to which she answered yes, for she had had experience of the standard Plug Board PBX at her last job. When she started at Albion she was faced not with a Plug Board but a Switch Board system. and so for a week or so calls were lost, cut short or misrouted, until she had got used to this new system. During conversations with my mother she recalled hearing that this Russian boy was coming down from the Glasgow head office, so she made it her job to meet him. The rest is history as they say. Ivy said that in the family he was called the Russian Boy, may be because of his accent which was most lightly Glaswegian rather than Russian. but I have no recollection of him having an accent of any kind.

Doris married Andrew Kinna on the 11th August 1928.

The marriage was reported in the local paper:

Numerous friends assembled at Christ Church, Brondesbury. on Saturday, to witness the marriage of Miss Doris Herring, daughter of Mr. and Mrs. Alfred Herring, of 116 Bathurst Gardens, Kensal Rise, with Mr. Andrew Kinna, son of Mrs. R. Kinna, of 197 Brondesbury Park. The bride was given away by her father. and she had as bridesmaids, the Misses Ivy Herring and Gladys Ellis. Her dress was of cream georgette, with hat. to match, and she wore silver shoes. The bridesmaids frocks were of pale green crepe de chine with green crinoline hats and beige kid shoes. Mr.Alan Gilmour officiated as best man. A large gathering of friends assembled at the reception, for Mr. and Mrs. Herring are very well-known in Kensal Rise. where they are old and highly respected residents. Many beautiful presents were received, and were on view. The catering and wedding cake were by the Scotch Bakery, of High-street, Harlesden. During the afternoon, Mr. and A Mrs. Kinna left for Shanklin. Isle of Wight, for their honeymoon, the bride's going away dress being of Lido blue. On returning to town they will reside at Lee. SE.

Ivy married in 1937 to Jack Pearce and I was a Page Boy. Jack and Ivy were frequent visitors to our house until the War, when Jack joined the RAF and was posted to Liverpool

Alfred Herring died in 1948, and Rosina died in 1955 but after Alfred died Rosina had a bout of Shingles and came and stayed with us in Bromley for a time and then with Ivy in Harrow. Rosina suffered a stroke which left her paralysed in one arm and a leg. I thing that would have been a strain for Ivy and arrangements were made to have her looked after by the 'Woodland Park Nursing home in Gt. Missingden. Rosina died on the 8th June 1955, 10 days before Pam and I were to marry. I was doing my National Service at that time, so I don't know where she is buried or what funeral arrangements were made. My mother wrote to me with the news but did not elaborate. During the time Rosina was staying with us I remember my mother calling me to the front room, where Rosina had her bed, I stood by the bed and she gave me Alfed's ring with the single diamond. I found it quite moving as I thought it was his wedding ring but some years later I looked at the Hall Mark which dated it to the early 20's but I still ware it to-day.

Click to enlarge picture